Anti-Bush

[Lil Bit]

Woman Booted Off Flight For Anti-Bush Shirt

POSTED: 11:49 am CDT October 6, 2005

RENO -- A Washington state woman was bounced from a Southwest Airlines flight in Reno for wearing a T-shirt with the pictures of President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney and the F-word.

The shirt was a play on words taken from the movie "Meet the Fockers." It had the title of the movie, with the last word changed to a curse word, according to KRNV-TV in Reno.

Lorrie Heasley said she plans to press a civil-rights complaint against the airline over Tuesday's action at Reno-Tahoe International Airport. Heasley said the airline offered to let her continue her flight if she were to change her shirt, which she refused to do.

"I didn't feel that I should have to change my shirt, because we live in the United States, and it's freedom of speech and it was based on the movie 'The Fockers,' and I didn't think it should have offended anyone," Heasley told KRNV.

Southwest officials said other passengers complained about her shirt, and that rules prohibit offensive clothing.

But the American Civil Liberties Union said Heasley's T-shirt is "protected" free speech under the Constitution.

[GoingNova]

Of course the Airline has the right to remove her! It is simple really:

Choice A) Remove one passenger who is offending and annoying multiple passengers, losing her business

or

Choice B) Allow the one passenger who is offending multiple people, and thereby possibly lose multiple people's business

It is a NO BRAINIER! CHOICE A! The Airline business is not in business for "Freedom of Expression", it is in business to make money. The ACLU has nothing better to do than to harass legitimate business with horse**** like this.

[Sicander]

An airline like any other buisness has the right to deny buisness to anyone they choose.

Also it said her shirt had the F word on it.

If you cant say it on the radio it probably a good indicator that some parents might not want thier children seeing in on thier shirts.


Washington Aye? I wonder if I know this person.

[ANGLOIRISH]

I support the Airlines decision. What ever happened to the days when travelers would dress up to travel? Seems these days no one dresses up anymore except for funerals and weddings.

[Lil Bit]

I don't understand the whole dress up for travel thing, but I do understand that by that she showed a complete lack of respect for the people around her and her country. If I was a spitter I would spit toward her, lol.

[Damm]

I voted yes, not because she "could have been a threat" or because she was expressing anti-bush sentiments, but because I don't believe that people should swear in front of children (and I'm just assuming that like every flight I've been on, there were children on board. Having a swear word on your shirt, in my opinion, is the same as walking around saying "****" every 5 seconds.

[Lil Bit]

When Lexi was 2 she was taught that word by some idiot. It took me 2 weeks to get her to stop saying it. Now when she hears a bad word she runs to me and tells me about whoever it was. I tried everything from the soap in the mouth to a pop on the mouth, guess what worked best? I explained to her that pretty little girls don't seem so nice and pretty when they say those htings. She asked if she as still a princess and I told her "Only if you don't ever say that or any other bad words again." It worked, she has been bad word free ever since.

[Sicander]

So many civil liberties groups have been trying to fight the right of a buisness to deny a customer.

This is rediculous. WE NEED THAT LAW. We need it desprately.

What happens when somone is making a problem of themselves in a store and they are not allowed to kick that person out? What happens someone is susupected of stealing and you are not allowed to block his entrance into the store.

Let me tell you a story about how the right to deny buisness may have saved lives. This is not some second hand half made up account. I was there, this story happened at the gas station I worked at.

11:30 friday night

A man pulls up, brushing one of the trash bins as he does. He gets out of his car, he cant even focus hard enough to get the nozle of the pump into his tank.

He is obviously drunk off his ass. Seeing this, I shut off the pumps. He becomes beligerant, saying "I am totaly out of gas, I have to get home."

I exersize my right to deny him buisness, call the cops and have him arrested for drunken disorderly and DUI.

Because I denied him buisness, he could not drink and drive. Who knows what would have happened if he had been able to fill his tank?

[Lil Bit]

:applaus:

Thanks Si, some family probably lived that night because of you. We should have more people in this country to take such initiative, and the right to do so.

[ajdean]

Ok, on this one I voted, YES!! Reason being yes a person has the right to Freedom of Speach, but that right is void if it interfers with the rights of others. An Anti-Bush shirt isn't the problem, but the offensive word is the problem. I believe that when the founding fathers created the Constitution they intended the Freedom of Speach to be within reason and with concern for morals. Therefore, the **** goes beyond the 1st Amendment when it uses words that aren't appropriate for all ages and impeedes on other peoples rights. (Hmmm, now hopefully that sounds right, been up since 4am EST!!)Edited to correct a misspelled word, sorry everyone. Also corrected the colors to green from yellow.

[Lil Bit]

Your point is well understood, though the yellow letters are hard to read. But good point!

[Sicander]

Ok, on this one I voted, YES!! Reason being yes a person has the right to Freedom of Speach, but that right is void if it interfers with the rights of others. An Anti-Bush **** isn't the problem, but the offensive word is the problem. I believe that when the founding fathers created the Constitution they intended the Freedom of Speach to be within reason and with concern for morals. Therefore, the **** goes beyond the 1st Amendment when it uses words that aren't appropriate for all ages and impeedes on other peoples rights. (Hmmm, now hopefully that sounds right, been up since 4am EST!!)

You mean shirt right?

[Lil Bit]

LMAO! **** and shirt, it's all the same in this situation! LMAO!

[ajdean]

Just one other point, besides my misspellings.

Since the Airline isn't a government agency and is for profit, within reason you give up your rights when you purchase the ticket. The Constitution is to protect the people from government, the first amendment was to protect newspapers and other expressions of expression, without having to worry about being harashed or imprisioned for your views. Also, note that freedom of expression is limited if you knowingly say something untrue about someone or something. (IE: Slander and Liable) Hope this has better accuracy then my last posting and if I stated anything that isn't correct or misstated please feel free to point it out, would greatly be appreciated.

[jadedcritic]

I'll be blunt, you people and your reluctance around the F-word have delicate sensabilities.

I have a little bit of understanding on both ends.

1) I believe that Southwest has the right to deny business; that's their choice, and I don't have a problem with it. Provided, they do owe her a refund, and they need to relax! yeesh

2) It's just a shirt for crying out loud, it's not that serious. Unless you plan on locking your children up for the rest of their lives, they're GOING to hear it, they're GOING to hear it SOONER then you'd like, and they're GOING to hear it IN FAR WORSE context then on a political commentary t-shirt.

Now maybe I'm just coming at this from a different place then most people. I was an english major in college. To me, it's all about communication, expression. I never really cared that much about swearing as long as i'ts consistent with what they're trying to say. As long as I can remember, there's really only one word-play that actually annoys me, and that's when my early 30's caucasian, republican friend calls me (also early 30's overweight, balding, caucasian, republican) his nigger; and it's not even the word that annoys me, it's the fact that it's so incredibly out of context it makes him look like an idiot.

See, as I said, to me, it's all about communication, expression. It's not the f-word that people find offensive, it's the meaning; and frankly, I don't find the sex act offensive so why should I find the word offensive.

Basically...lighten up, it's just a shirt. It's not infringing on your civil rights. Last time I checked freedom of expression is in the Bill of Rights, but the right to not be offended by someone else expressing themselves isn't.

Now, having said all those things, which I suspect won't be popular, I will also say this. If it had been my shirt, I would have changed it as soon as I became aware that it was going to be a substantial problem. Same principles as I've said before. Just a shirt, not worth getting myself thrown off a flight, and certainly not worth filing rights complaints over. That's just BS; this is one of those people, if this hadn't happened to her, she would have sued some other company for some other pitiful little reason. Anything to get a ticket in the court lottery.

[Sicander]

I'll be blunt, you people and your reluctance around the F-word have delicate sensabilities.

Or maybe we just don't think it needs to be said. The person wore this shirt to get attention, and when they did get attention they got angry. That seems pretty dumb to me.

I have a little bit of understanding on both ends.

1) I believe that Southwest has the right to deny business; that's their choice, and I don't have a problem with it. Provided, they do owe her a refund, and they need to relax! yeesh

I'm sure they refunded her tickets. She would probably sue them if they didn't.

2) It's just a shirt for crying out loud, it's not that serious. Unless you plan on locking your children up for the rest of their lives, they're GOING to hear it, they're GOING to hear it SOONER then you'd like, and they're GOING to hear it IN FAR WORSE context then on a political commentary t-shirt.

People have the right to raise their children how they want. The thing is, yah the kid is gonna learn the word. But if you get it in their heads when they are young that they should not use the word and that the word is bad, they probably wont grow up to be an idiot who has to use it every 3 seconds.

Now maybe I'm just coming at this from a different place then most people. I was an english major in college. To me, it's all about communication, expression. I never really cared that much about swearing as long as i'ts consistent with what they're trying to say. As long as I can remember, there's really only one word-play that actually annoys me, and that's when my early 30's caucasian, republican friend calls me (also early 30's overweight, balding, caucasian, republican) his nigger; and it's not even the word that annoys me, it's the fact that it's so incredibly out of context it makes him look like an idiot.

You have to realize that while you may not be offended, others might and you have no right to force them into a situation where they will be offended. IE locked in a plane high in there air. Also judging by the vast majority of people I have met that ware shirts like this, she WANTED to offend people. SHE WANTED to cause strife. I want to have a nice calm flight. The airline wants to have a nice calm flight, and if you are counter intuitive to that end, you should not be allowed on the flight. Just like the F word isnt allowed on the radio or TV, it should not be displayed prominantly in front of children. Just because they will see it in the future, or have seen it in the past, does not mean that they should be seeing it at all.

Also, that was a nice jab at republicans there. Did you have to say he was a republican? No, you could have just said 'my friend' you didnt have to preface it with anything. Doing that makes it look like you want to apply the same stereotype to all republicans. While that may not be your intention, it does look alot like that.

See, as I said, to me, it's all about communication, expression. It's not the f-word that people find offensive, it's the meaning; and frankly, I don't find the sex act offensive so why should I find the word offensive.

You werent on the plane. You can not find it offensive all you want, but other people might and this person needed to respect that. Did this person not have another shirt in her luggage? Could she not change in the rest room and make it a non issue? The answer is she could have. She also could have turned the shirt inside out, but she would rather offend people.

Basically...lighten up, it's just a shirt. It's not infringing on your civil rights. Last time I checked freedom of expression is in the Bill of Rights, but the right to not be offended by someone else expressing themselves isn't.

Why should we lighten up? Why should we have to conform to ideals we don't agree with?

Now, having said all those things, which I suspect won't be popular, I will also say this. If it had been my shirt, I would have changed it as soon as I became aware that it was going to be a substantial problem. Same principles as I've said before. Just a shirt, not worth getting myself thrown off a flight, and certainly not worth filing rights complaints over. That's just BS; this is one of those people, if this hadn't happened to her, she would have sued some other company for some other pitiful little reason. Anything to get a ticket in the court lottery

Thats good, it means you have respect for other people's sensibilities in some fasion. The better idea would be to not ware the shirt in the first place.

[jadedcritic]

Why should we lighten up? Why should we have to conform to ideals we don't agree with?

Because if you believe in someone's freedom of expression you can't play the victim every time someone expresses something you don't agree with. That's basically just have your cake-and-it-to disease. Oh sure, expression is important, but only so long as it doesn't inconvenience me?

Thats good, it means you have respect for other people's sensibilities in some fasion. The better idea would be to not ware the shirt in the first place

I realized some time ago that I'm wierd like that, even though I don't really know or understand why. I don't care about swearing, not in the least, but I have this odd subconcious filter that somehow manages to keep me from swearing in public 95% of the time. People that know me tend to think it's funny when I slip and actually do swear or insert something innocent instead. For the most part, I'm a relatively articulate guy, I believe there's nothing wrong with swearing, and sometimes it is appropriate; BUT as I said before, it's about communication. If I offend someone, and as a result of that offense, they don't understand or reject what it is I'm trying to say. Then there's better ways to communicate.

Whether or not they were justified in being offended is kinda besides the point. If the swear gets in the way of things, then it defeats my purpose.

As far as changing the shirt, that's not about not offending people, that's just about simple math. Path of least resistance. I assume if I was on the plane in the first place, it was with the intent of going somewhere to meet a commitment. If they're threatening to throw me off over it, then I can either take two minutes and get another shirt; or miss the flight, miss whatever committment I was going to, and go through the hassle of rescheduling all of it just because a plane load of people have easily bruised sensibilities.

Not worth it.

Oh, and don't worry too much about any percieved Zing against republicans. I consider myself a republican; My family is conservative, 90% of my friends are conservative. If you percieved me as taking a shot at the GOP - take consolation in that I took a shot at myself.

[Sicander]

Because if you believe in someone's freedom of expression you can't play the victim every time someone expresses something you don't agree with. That's basically just have your cake-and-it-to disease. Oh sure, expression is important, but only so long as it doesn't inconvenience me?

A: I don't see a swear word as 'freedom of expression' You don't have to say it to get the point accoss. She could have expressed her views on the subject without using the f world.

B: SHE IS THE ONE PLAYING THE VICTIM!!!!! She can express herself fully without SWEARING! No one told her she could not have certain polititcal views. NO one is surpressing her views. We are just saying that she needs to be civil about how she expresses those views? How is swearing neccisary for freedom of speach?

I realized some time ago that I'm wierd like that, even though I don't really know or understand why. I don't care about swearing, not in the least, but I have this odd subconcious filter that somehow manages to keep me from swearing in public 95% of the time. People that know me tend to think it's funny when I slip and actually do swear or insert something innocent instead. For the most part, I'm a relatively articulate guy, I believe there's nothing wrong with swearing, and sometimes it is appropriate; BUT as I said before, it's about communication. If I offend someone, and as a result of that offense, they don't understand or reject what it is I'm trying to say. Then there's better ways to communicate.

Whether or not they were justified in being offended is kinda besides the point. If the swear gets in the way of things, then it defeats my purpose.

Ok then we are on the same page. See we don't dissagree as much as it looks. She did not need to have the swear word there. No one would have kicked her off the plain for having a shirt that is anti-bush, and did not have lewd language on it.

As far as changing the shirt, that's not about not offending people, that's just about simple math. Path of least resistance. I assume if I was on the plane in the first place, it was with the intent of going somewhere to meet a commitment. If they're threatening to throw me off over it, then I can either take two minutes and get another shirt; or miss the flight, miss whatever committment I was going to, and go through the hassle of rescheduling all of it just because a plane load of people have easily bruised sensibilities.

Not worth it.

I agree, not worth it. But this person did not! She refused to change it, therfore she believed the 'statement' was more important then the flight. They would not have simply kicked her off. The airlines need money, they would have tired to solve it diplomatically. Obviously this woman had no intention of a diplomatic resolution.

Oh, and don't worry too much about any percieved Zing against republicans. I consider myself a republican; My family is conservative, 90% of my friends are conservative. If you percieved me as taking a shot at the GOP - take consolation in that I took a shot at myself

I will accept that. I just think the wording could have been better thats all.

[GoingNova]

I'll be blunt, you people and your reluctance around the F-word have delicate sensabilities.
Do you have children my friend? I do. A three year old. Say the F-word around him repeatedly after I politely ask you not too, and I will punch your teeth in. Sorry.

Wearing the F-word on a shirt shows some sort of mental disabilty. Either you are just an igorant person, or you are seriously craving some sort of attention. Sorry. What you wear in your home, in your backyard, over a friend's house, in short, in private or semi-private, is your business. What you were in public is the public's business, and this woman quite obiously is an arrogant, selfish, uncouth trollop.

Were I there with my wife, I would have just shook my head, and called her an idiot, but you can be DAMN SURE that were I there with my son, and if he could read (if he could read at 3, I would be rich, hehehehe) I would have complained, very harshly, to the airline.

Just my two cents. ;)

[Sicander]

Hahahaha Trollop!

[ANGLOIRISH]

I wonder if the trollop is aware that the posters on BA are writing volumes regarding her T-shirt. Maybe she should sell it on e-Bay! LOL

[Lil Bit]

Megan could read at 3, so could I. Should I be rich for it?

Anyhow, I just think it's a respect thing. And if a restaurant doesn't have to serve her then an airline shouldn't have to fly her.

[MrsD]

OK - here I go... Was this woman a stupid ass? YES!! Did she have a right under the US Constitution to wear the shirt? yes.. (Said in lower caps...) Should she have been allowed on the plane? Yeah - she paid her fare and was obviously beyond suspition of being a plane-blower-upper. Again - is she a STUPID ASS?? YES!!!! Would I waat to sit next to her on the flight? HELL, NO!!!!!

[ANGLOIRISH]

I can see your point Mrsd. Yes she has a right to wear the shirt, yes she has a right to fly in the shirt but what would be so drastic sitting beside her? Her shirt would be facing frontward toward the cabin or back of the chair in front of you. You would be on her right or left side. So you wouldn't even see the front of her shirt.

I think far too much emphasises has been placed on the shirt as well I didn't like the title of "Meet the Fluckers" or whatever! It is stupid.

[GoingNova]

Megan could read at 3, so could I. Should I be rich for it?

The implication was that a child who can read at 3 is obviously very intelligent, and in the long run will probably be successful, and possibly share the wealth with her parents. :D

Andrew, my son, pretends to read all the time. He recognizes certain letters, but he can not actually read yet. God bless your daughter for being able to read so early! :)

[ANGLOIRISH]

Takes after her Mother! Smart little cookie! And just as cute too!

[GoingNova]

Folks, there is no guaranteed right to free speech on a privately owned plane. The plane is owned by a company, not the "people", and therefore, technically, it is privately owned. The airline is well within it's rights to refuse anyone who does not follow it's rules, WITHOUT REFUND.

I worked at an airport, and I am very well versed in this sort of thing. It happened all the time. Without fail, the police always told the passengers, if the airline does not want to fly you, you are not flying. Period, case close. Until a court case sets precedent otherwise, this is how it is.

[jadedcritic]

Never really had a problem with right to refuse service; just don't think it's much of a cause. People act like flying with this woman is somehow impinging on their comfort. Relax, take a deep breath, read a book, watch the movie. All the planes I've ever been on don't somehow require me spend the entire flight staring at women's tshirts. Not that I'd mind, but I think I might get thrown off the plane for a different, more legitimate reason.

I stick by what I said, I think most normal humans would've put two and two together and realized it's not worth it for a t-shirt-, which, let's face it, isn't even all that good. Meet the f'<BEEP>ers? Oh for crying out loud, it's not even all that clever. This woman is one of those people who would've sued for anything eventually, if not this, then something else.

As I've said, I might have worn the shirt. Don't care for Bush/Cheney, but as soon as it became obvious that it was a substantial problem that wasn't going away; I'd have changed it.

[ANGLOIRISH]

Another case of making mountains out of mole hills!

[Chrisl0]

Even if the person makes a small error the critics will make the little thing into a big thing.

[SISTER_KATE]

Airline on A&E is a funny true life show on what the airline personnel must deal with when people are flying. Shameful how some passengers act!

[ANGLOIRISH]

Smutty people with no morales perhaps.

[chica_dulce_04]

personally it wouldn't bother me because i'm used to rude people like that all the time. now if i had my daughter or son with me, then i'd be p/o!!!

[ANGLOIRISH]

kids are more resilient than we give them credit. They have probably seen more than we would care to know. It may shock you what these little tykes observe and how much more tolerant they are than we so called adults.

[Chrisl0]

Yea but eventually these kids might get damaged by what they see. It has happened before. But it also depends on the individual. Some can take it and some can't.

[ANGLOIRISH]

Chris I agree with you that there is some things that affect children and causes them such trauma that they don't get over it. However, in getting back to the subject at hand. The airlines wouldn't let the woman fly because she had a Meet the F-ers stenciled on a T-shirt. Do you believe that twenty years the last words from some poor bastard sitting in the electric chair for murdering an airline pilot are going to be "The airline destroyed my life so I had to kill the pilot! I was only 6 and I never forgot that T-shirt. death to the F-ers!"

[Chrisl0]

That's true. I think its wrong to be kicked off the plane because of what your shirt said. Also I don't think cursing really affects a person considering I always been around it in some way. Not to say that I had a bad up bringing.