How do you feel about the new Pope?

[MrsD]

The Catholic faith has a new leader - Pope Benedict XVI - how do you feel about the whole thing?

[Sicander]

Well I don't know yet. Ill have to see more. Im thankfull he is such a hardliner and not a lets all just get along pope. It should have an effect on the world as a whole.

[monsieurjohn]

my mother is a political conservative and a religious liberal, and she's not thrilled with the selection - she feels that a great deal of progress in women's roles in the church could be erased, and that there certainly won't be any more progress

my girlfriend's family is very religiously conservative, and they're thrilled with the new guy

i probably take after my mother, just because that's how i was brought up. the pomp and circumstance of the papacy (and religious heirarchy in general) bothers me a bit - i just don't think that's what it's all about. i feel like more focus should be placed on effectively reaching and relating to today's population than on adhering to rules that were made in a wholly different time and place, for an entirely different society.

*shrug* we'll see

[monsieurjohn]

(i added a couple options to the poll for those not too thrilled with the choice)

[MrsD]

I agree completely with your assessment, reflex. I'm not a Catholic (haven't been for years) and I find the wealth of the Vatican to be obscene, as well as all the hoopla that surrounds it.

[Djeuve]

All I know is that the Germans are thrilled about it...ok, they don't ALL agree with his extreme conservatism, but there hasn't been a German pope since the medieval times, around the 12th century I think!

They're hoping it can help the German world image, since the only thing most people learn about Germany comes from World War 2 films...not exactly the image of Germany today.

But then, if Pope Benedict XVI shows only an extreme side, it might not help either... :eusa_thin

As for what I think, well, we'll just have to see what he has to offer. As pope, he might do things a bit differently, or act exactly the same. Time will tell. Either way, the changes (or maintaining staying the same) he brings might ultimately be a good thing. ... Or not.

So for now, I'm going to sit back and watch...

:bunny:

[radcliffe_fan723]

I dont really care. I am not Catholic, but I guess I am happy for them....I dont really have anything against him. I dont really have anything to do with him either. I hear about it almost every time I turn on my tv now. First I heard about the one who died and now this one. I am kinda tired of hearing about Popes now, but hey no offense to any catholics!!!!

[Rascal]

there's no option for no opinion...i could definately care less, but i don't feel particularly strongly for or against him. from what i'd heard of him he was uber-conservative and was going to undo a lot that pope john paul II had done to help progress the church. but from everything that he has said since it sounds like he will be a more liberal than people thought or wanted to give him credit for. time will tell...

[Nightwolf04]

I'm abit sick of hearing about popes now. But hey they got someone new great...I jsut wish that it was ok to have a woman pope instead (no offence meant to anyone). Mainly because women have different ideas sometimes and it would be nice to hav a woman religious leader so the religions weren't based around men *sigh* but I doubt that will happen...

[Damm]

I was a bit dissappointed that the African cardinal wasn't selected. I'm not sure if he would have OK-ed condom use in Africa, but from what I hear of this pope they might have had a better shot.

I don't really care though. I really don't like the catholic church, no offense to any catholics here. I just thought it might be nice for the church to get with the times and realise that there is an aids epidemic of gigantic proportions going on and that maybe someone with world power or influence should do something about it.

Anyway..enough opinions...back to apathetic bliss...

[ski2bfree]

I dunno... being jewish, something about a german guy wearing red, big goofy hat, presiding over a crowd with flags waving on either side... it makes me a bit nervous. Not to mention he was a soldier in the german army during WWII. Everyone keeps saying he did it reluctantly, but i dunno.

I tihnk he's going to take the church way back with his practices. He was one of the most conservative of the candidates for the position. Pretty much any progress that was being made by John Paul is going to be eradicated. Times are changing and I don't think the church should be jumping back 200 years when the rest of the world is being progressive.

[Damm]

Haha, I agree with you there Ski2bfree. I had heard that he was just in the Hitler Youth though, but I suppose it would make sense that he had also been in the army, since at the end of it all Hitler was sending 15 year-olds into battle.

I also agree about the progressive thing. if they are wondering why the catholic church is suffering in so many countries, maybe they should look at what the world is actually like, and not how they would like it to be.

[GoingNova]

I am not going to quote anyone in particular, but rather address several criticisms raised.

I am thrilled. When it comes to Religion I am extremly conservative, and I expect the church to be ULTRA conservative. So many people come out against things addressed by the Catholic Church, and many times they do not know why the Church preaches what it does. Case in point, birth control. If you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is defines our faith and it's rules, it says that when a man and a woman join in marriage, which is held as sacred, God shares with them one of His greatest gifts, the power of life. As a Christian, I believe all life comes from God. God has the power to create. He shared this gift with man and woman, and the Church believes, and I do as well, that by using birth control (and for males, masturbation as well), it is akin to taking God's gift of life, and simply throwing it away, which among many things, if nothing else, is ungrateful and disrespectful. If you don't think the ability to create a new life is anything special, ask a couple who wants a baby, but can't have one. I believe that particular issue is AN EXTREMELY high moral road to take, but I expect that from my Church. I am human, I sin, but when I sin I try my best to repent, I don't try and explain away my sin. I think we as human beings need a higher moral authority to look up to.

I do not think the Church needs to be "Progressive". You either believe, or you don't. The Church should concentrate on teaching the morality it believes to be the right morality, and not concern itself with getting more members. The Catholic Church does actually do that sometimes, and I personally hate it when they do. Religion IS NOT a popularity contest, and folding on certain issues just to gain more members shows that you have a lack of conviction. Some of the "hot issues": female priests, and priest marrying. Well, Jesus had 12 disciples, all of them were men. He had several women around him, Mary Magdalen for example, but He did not choose the females as disciples. That is good enough for me. I do not think the Church needs "Female Priests". We have nuns, and frankly, I think it is offensive to say a nun is any less important to the church than a priest is: look at Mother Teresa. Letting Priests get married, I am against it. A priest devotes his life to the service of God and the church. Married men and women have a responsibility to themselves and the family they create, and in my opinion, can not devote themselves to God, a spouse, children, AND the church in a way a priest who is not married can. I do not look down on other Christian religions that allow their ministers to get married, I just don't want my priest to get married.

I too am disappointed the African Cardinal, Cardinal Francis Arinze, was not picked, but for a different reason than most. Cardinal Arinze is JUST AS CONSERVATIVE as Pope Benedict is, a fact most people are not aware of, but appointing him would have, at the very least, APPEARED to be progressive. People would have been bitterly disappointed in him once they saw how conservative he is, but again, at the very least they would have been happy at his appointment. :eusa_ange

The Catholic Church, like many things, is a PERFECT institution, corrupted by humans that run it. That being said, an OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF GOOD is done by the Catholic Church, which as many other things in life, is often overshadowed by the evil that is done by some in it. The percentage of priests that molest children, for example, is MINUTE when you realize how many priests there are, yet the press would have you believe that one in three priests has sex with boys. Yes, the Vatican has riches beyond belief, and doesn't sell it all and donate it the poor, but that is because it can't. The Church needs to project an image, like it or not, because we live in a REAL WORLD. Here on Earth, there are certain things that, like it or not, have to be done. The Vatican inspires millions upon millions of people every year who go there to see it. Those millions of people every year, year after year, do MUCH MORE GOOD than would be accomplished by selling it all and donating it. Again, you have to look at the big picture, which we humans are famous for NOT DOING. So much is often said about the "greed" of the Catholic Church. Do you know what my local parish's monthly expenses are? $18,000.00! They need to collect that much just to pay the electric, heating, gas, and other monthly bills. I often hear, "Yeah, but they don't pay taxes!", and that is true, but they still have to pay gas, electric, heating, and all the other bills we all have.

All I am saying is that there is a lot more to the Catholic Church than meets the eye. And you shouldn't let your personal bad experience with someone from the Church taint your view of the Church as a whole, no more than a white guy should hate all black people because he was once mugged by a black guy!

Just my two cents. :eusa_ange

[Sicander]

I agree with you on many counts. The last thing the church needs is liberalism. The whole idea is not to change. Conservatism is the only thing that works. The church is established on a set of fundamental unchangeable ideals. I would have no respect form any religion that does not live up to its ideals. That being said there is one thing I disagree on.


Yes, the Vatican has riches beyond belief, and doesn't sell it all and donate it the poor, but that is because it can't. The Church needs to project an image, like it or not, because we live in a REAL WORLD. Here on Earth, there are certain things that, like it or not, have to be done.

Unfortunately I don't have the good book on me right now so I can't site chapter and verse but I believe it goes a little like this "We are to be in the world and not of it" also there is another "It is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than to put a camel though the eye of a needle."
I think the church should not be worried about "putting up a face" we are to be separate from the world. Involved but not effected, present but not assimilated. We stand on our own platforms and do not care what we look like as long as we live up to those ideals. I think that the riches and extravagance of the Vatican is absurd. The best churches i have ever attended were help in garages and living rooms, in the houses of my friends. The building of the church is unimportant. Church can take place in an ally behind Denny's and still be church. Whats important are the people. WE are the church!!!! Riches and gold only distract us from that fact. No amount of extravagance is going to impress God. We could erect a massive structure blazoned in gold all in the name of him, all to glorify his name and you know what, that one lone Evangelist on the street in his rags and sandwitchboards is doing more to honor his God than that tower of gold and jewels ever could!

[Damm]

You make very good points, GoingNova. Thanks for your reply. I'm known throughout the land as being overly cynical and pessimistic, with a known distrust for international organizations. I've also studied history fairly intensively for the past 4 years of my life, and often I see actions more clearly than intent. I know the church MEANS to do good, and I know many in the church DO good. Case and point people such as Mother Theresa and christian organizations that help people in the Third World.

However, I still think that appearance counts for something. The church may not have to BE progressive (or "liberal" - though I can't imagine a church ever being "liberal"), but an appearance of progressivity (is that a word?) I think would benefit it. That being said though, what the hell do I care if the church is benefitted? I don't even believe in it. Such odd debates I get myself into...

[ski2bfree]

I didn't mean to assault anyone's beliefs or claim that the church should begin to make radical changes immediately. Certainly giving up the ideals that the catholic church is based on would be a terrible thing that would destroy all that it stands for. But sometimes you have to look past your ideals for the common good. The AIDS epidemic in Africa could be stifled with some education on condom usage. Ideally, people with AIDS should abstain from having sex with others and thus there would be no need for this type of education. Unfortunately, preaching of abstainance has not helped to control the situation there. Though teaching people to use birth control goes against the principles of the catholic church, it would help to save lives.

Whether women can or can not attain priesthood, I couldn't care less. In the jewish faith there are women rabbis, and they are respected the same as any man rabbi. Your faith is what matters, not your gender. Just as well, your title should not matter so long as you believe just the same. I don't understand why priests can't marry, but that's again from the jewish perspective. I'm not pointing fingers here, but all I'm saying is I've never heard about a rabbi feeling up a hebrew school student.

Now, to the only stance I really hold against the catholic church, the money issue. The Vatican is the richest independent nation in the world. Yes, that's right, Vatican City is considered its own nation independent from Rome, for any people who did not know that. They have their own currency, their own treasury. Yet, when people are in desperate need of money, such as the tsunami victims, it's perfectly acceptable for the Pope to issue a statement that he is praying for the victims and nothing else. No help. "God be with you, but you're not getting any of our money." Volunteers from the catholic church were few and far between, and funding from the church was non-existent. I believe that religious institutions are based on a set of morals that would teach to help your fellow man when help is needed. That's my only qualm with the church.

[icpfreaker05]

I'm not Catholic so I dont really care. I just think its funny that they dont want to keep Popes very long and thats why they get old ones. LOL. I learned that in Government....

[GoingNova]

DAMN I LOVE THE INTERNET, AND I LOVE MY BASHANYTHING.COM FAMILY! We are discussing perhaps one of the most personal and hottest topics around, religion, and everyone has been so polite and respective of everyone else's views: I LOVE IT!

All of your points are valid, and I really can't answer them any differently than before. I guess we will agree to disagree. :eusa_ange

[Nightwolf04]

lol thanks nova. It's good to eb able to talk about things with bitching etc :)

good to hear other people's opinions too ^.^

[GoingNova]

Opps, I forgot to comment on this....

Volunteers from the catholic church were few and far between, and funding from the church was non-existent. I believe that religious institutions are based on a set of morals that would teach to help your fellow man when help is needed. That's my only qualm with the church.

I am not sure where you got this information from, but I am afraid it is inaccurate. My parish, just ONE Catholic Church on Long Island NY, sent over $124,000.00. I can not imagine how many MILLIONS of dollars Catholic Churches contributed if just my church alone sent over a hundred thousand dollars.

[monsieurjohn]

sounds like you've got a great church, nova

i don't mind the church standing on certain positions. it's fine to say this is wrong, this is right, etc. those are ideals, standards to strive for in a perfect world. sadly we don't live in a perfect world, and real-world circumstances sometimes call for common-sense deviations from the ideals. the lesser of two evils, one might say. that doesn't make the option the best or ideal solution, but it may be the best we can do at the moment.

at least that's how i feel, with regard to issues like condom use in africa.

on issues like women's ordination, and more specifically women delivering homilies, i think the church needs to lighten up a bit. i hate to sound so cliché, but thinking "what would jesus do" is pretty apt here. I really don't think he'd forbid someone with something valuable to say, who feels inspired or what have you, from delivering a homily. but then we run into my personal stumbling block, which is the beaurocracy and red tape that the church has developed - i just don't think that's how it's supposed to be.

[Brainfreeze]

I still think the Cathloc Church is the largest most successful pyramid scheme ever, but hey to each the're own.

[Sicander]

No TBN is the largest pirimid scheme ever. Christian my ass! Its a shame that TBN is seen as what christians realy are. NOTHING could be farther from the truth, these people should be smitten for how they have ruined the christian church!

[ski2bfree]

i hate to sound so cliché, but thinking "what would jesus do" is pretty apt here.

Kind of off-topic, but would Jesus sucker-punch a Jehovah's witness? Cause I always get the urge to when they come to my door. And I can't help but think "If He knows this is His representation here on earth, I think He wants me to."

[Sicander]

Jesus would do exactly what I do with a background in appologetics and world religions. He would present irrefutable logical arguments to show that they are wrong. Trust me when they walk out of my house questioning thier own beliefs it fills me with much more joy then simply punching them. (although in a pinch that can work too. Just imagine it "Hi Im here to tell you about the church of.. BAM! *door closes* LOL thats so funny)

[Brainfreeze]

Or you can go with the classic.."So only 240k Jehovah's Witnesses can enter heaven correct?" "Wouldn't recruiting me lessen you chances, your already competing against each other, dont let me hold you back."

I feel that Religion is a good thing..but organized religion isn't. It should be a very personal thing, that is different for each person. But when you get into groups you start making changes to your views in order to fit in to the crowd, or on the other end, you start convincing others to change they're views in order to fit in to your view.

[MrsD]

Sicander - what's "TBN"?

Great post, reflex! I think you've really summed up how I feel, as well.

As far as "organized religion" goes - it's human nature to ban together and do things as a group. Ever see a lone caveman? How about a renagade Indian all alone on the plains? What about the line at every women's restroom?

[Brainfreeze]

Yes it is Human Nature to band together..I think theres another reason other then to do things though. Humanity has always raised someone up above them, usually another Human, because most of us are content with everyday life and dislike making any important decisions, that and frankly when things start going bad we can place all the blame on that one person that we told to "lead" us.

Now your leaders have the same thought in mind though..but they cant place another Human above them, because they lead all humans in they're realm already, dont want to share the power and all that. So the leaders create God, an infallible being that has a plan, now if anything goes bad it is no longer the leader's fault. The leader represents God's voice, all decisions are God's. Dont kill the messenger and all that.

So in the end Man created God in order to have some sense of denyability when things go bad.

Ehh, sorry for the tangent, just picked up off of the Humanity binding in groups.

[Nightwolf04]

have to agree had Jehovah's witnesses at my door a couple of weeks back. They didn't ask for my parents they jsut started talking to me...I polited told them to **** off I'm not interested and they shouldn't try to persaude me of moving my religion (which is none i might add). Plus I told them my age (14) and that made them back off abit stupid silly old women, they annoy me they started talking like they know all talking down at me though I was taller, it's annoying and embarassing So I made to slam the door. ggrrr

Sorry if that doesn't make sense they jsut annoy me, everytime I talk to one they seem to have no idea about other religiosn apart from their own...talk about open minds *sarcasm*

[Sicander]

Sicander - what's "TBN"?



Trinity Broadcasting Network, The wonderful people that brought us Tammy Fea and Tom Baker and the people that are single handedly destroying the Christian church.

And I totaly diagree on the man creates god idea. I think its rediculous but thats a REALY long post and so far Ive done it three times on this site so look it up if you wanna see my opinion on that.