View Full Version : BASH English Classes
Klashbash
03-30-2005, 05:36 PM
The English majors have a real problem of passing off symbolism in a book as an actual ability to write instead of a pathetic way to make the book seem more enriched. The Lord of the Flies for example had a bunch of pansy kids running around, zero character development and a EXTREMELY predictable plot. It is regarded as a literacy masterpiece.
Sadly, these English majors are the ones in charge of our public school system's English classes. There simply isn't more of a way to get kids to hate reading more than English classes. When we are kids, we are introduced into a world full of wonderful imagination and places we can go to that we've never been before.
English classes instead give us books for us to go to places no kid/teen ever wants to go to. We are given books that are extremely outdated and use old English that nobody uses anymore. Shakespeare is like what 400 years old?! If these kids are given books that they will not want to read and refuse to read it they will not learn anything from it. Is it truly a wonder why some people who graduate from high school can't read? They had no motive because any sort of motive was suppressed with outdated garbage.
Imagine the revolution in reading if kids in elementary school are given comic books. For one to want to read, the story must relate to one of their hobbies or interests. We should have books like Ender's Game for high school which has a complex story, written in modern times, doesn't have pathetic symbolism, can relate to the students, doesn't have a predictable plot and drives the motive of reading sky high.
Sicander
03-30-2005, 05:55 PM
I personally liked lord of the flies but it wasnt written as a "story" it was written to prove a point. And I agree with you that there are modern authors that children should be reading but the old ones arent bad. Were do you think all the new ones got thier ideas. Being a person that has read lord of the flies, have you ever watched the show "lost" seriously someone should sue sombody. Im my school we read some more reacent books but nothing more modern then an old grisham novel. My favorite book its farenhiet 451 (shame on moore for perverting such a good title) the recent movie Equalibriam is a take off from that. Basically the first of the gener is always what every book afterwords ripps off. For fantasy we have Lord of the Rings, I seriously havent read any fantasy novels that didnt rip it off (Excluding Narnia) Juels Vern has been the basis for every sci fi written in a long time (Excluding Hitchikers) and without Mary Shelly were would our horror authors be today? How many times has Romoe and Juliet been redone, how nany times has beowulf or the odesy been redone. Dickens has been ripped off more times than I can count.
Just remember there is somthing to be said for studying the originals.
What a shame that the intent and purpose of having students read "old stuff" is so lost. It looks like those who gone before were rather uneducated and unenlightened. Thank goodness we have those who are, so they can lead the future into oblivion.
Oh! I also love Fahrenheit 451. It is, indeed, an awesome book. I was never a huge fan of Lord of the Flies, but I did appreciate that the author had a specific intent and used the simple story to try to prove his point.
I should also mention that Lord of the Rings has many elements in common with Wagner's opera The Ring Cycle. Of course, Lord of the Rings is better, because it's a novel instead of a 3 day long over-romanticized opera.
I also believe that Shakespeare is important to teach...if only to show the basic human problems and themes that have always existed throughout time, as well as the depth that the english language can show.
However, I agree that some english teachers really suck the life out of books. I think books should be left for people to interpret on an individual level. What one finds important in a book, may not be the same as someone else, because of their differing life experiences. What annoys me is the english teachers who declare an interpretation to be "wrong." It's ok to disagree and say that you took a different message from a book, but it's not ok to completely discount what the other person thought.
Oh, and Ender's Game is an awesome book as well. I didn't like the sequels, but the first book has no comparison.
Sicander
03-30-2005, 06:57 PM
I guess I got lucky. My English teacher was always intrested in our own interpritaions of a book. The only time he would tell us we are wrong is when symbolysm was obvious like in lord of the flies. He didnt teach us about symbolysm though, he taught us about literary tools and things of that nature. We read the old books because writers like dickens had such a good grasp of liturature as a whole that his books are ideal to teach from. One of my favorite sayings, and I think Ill add this to my sig, is "Arse Gratia Artis" Or "Art for arts sake" There is nothing that says a good book has to have symbolism. Some of the best ones have absolutly NONE! Take Lord of the Rings for example. Tolkien is quoted many times as saying that there is no meaning behind my books, they are just good stories and thats it. And THAT is why they were so good. Many people try to glean meaning from his books but I think they just detract from the overall story.
I love to read but I always hated English class. I really really hated it. Some of the books we read were good but others just deserve a through bashing.
Guess it makes sense that I wound up as a science major in college
Djeuve
03-31-2005, 01:23 AM
I love your point, Damm. I know we've discussed it often amongst ourselves, but I always totally agree with it. People should be encouraged to form their own views and opinions and open thri minds to those of others (since no-one is ever 100% right, at least, *I* don't think :p ). When someone says: "No, shut up and listen to me, you are wrong.", that makes it both no fun to discuss and doesn't motivate anyone to press their points further, unless they're hard-heads who don't give up.
Oh, and I LOVED Narnia....I read it a long time ago, not long before LotR, and I was captivated.
Did anyone else ever see the TV version of it they used to show on PBS? (I had very few channels to choose from as a kid :p)
:bunny:
I saw the TV version of the Chronicles of Narnia. I MUCH preferred the books, actually.
Nightwolf04
03-31-2005, 05:50 AM
At school at the moment we are going to be studying shakespeare...again we did that last year and it's starting to really p*ss me off.
I used to love english class when I was younger because we read children's books (if I remember one of my teachers went through all of the harry potter books at the time) but now being in my fourth year of high school I hate it. I just ist back and try to listen. But luckily I do get decent grades.
If only they were to change the system I'm sure I many of my other friends etc woule enjoy english...instead of reading things wrote before even my great grandfather was born *yawns*
There is great importance to learning and knowing of our past! Shakespear may seem boring to some, and I'm sure it's confusing and aggravating but to have these great works lost? That would be akin to History teachers leaving out such horrid acts of mankind such at the Holocaust and the evils that occurred at the concentration camps! What about Science teachers omitting the marvels of Pasteur or "forgetting" to teach about where penicillin came from? We are not the only generation - Learn as much as you can and you'll be pleased to see where it can take you.
Nightwolf04
03-31-2005, 06:03 AM
I know i know that we should desicover things (i am taking history so i am interested in this sort of thing) but to teach it to us, we most of us are at a time when we barely understand it is stupid and a wate of time, we should be learning it in collage (i'm not quite sure the difference in schools between america and england) instead of at high school.
Good point, Nightwolf - I forgot about the difference in our school systems! I just think that there are so many wonderful things that our students are missing out on these days (do I sound OLD or what?:eek: ). How many kids graduating from American High Schools can barely spell? It's a true shame...
Nightwolf04
03-31-2005, 06:10 AM
Lol yea they are abit different I think it is a shame that msot leave nowadays without proper education, but then again if the child has a good teacher and has something to learn that interests them then we wouldn'thave this problem....
Firefly557
03-31-2005, 07:26 AM
i dont think shakespeare is all that bad i mean he invented words and his works are still relevent day (in some respects) and once you get pass the archaic language you get to the real relevent point of it and without studying the classics you wont know where somethings some from and maybe without the enlightened enriched experience that you could have (good god i sound like my dad) and good teachers are a matter of opinion and so are good books in classes such as we have there is no pleasing everyone as everyone has different tastes (and some just dont read)
Nightwolf04
03-31-2005, 08:15 AM
one question kath....
WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING!
that is all....
Firefly557
03-31-2005, 08:17 AM
i havent been smoking anything......
Nightwolf04
03-31-2005, 08:29 AM
hhhmmm.....
In terms of Shakespeare, I actually think that it's "overtaught" in high schools. Mind you, I only have experience with Canadian high school, so I don't know what it is like in the states or the UK.
Personally, I think that if you want kids to appreciate Shakespeare you have to have them ACT it, not sit in a class and ask them what "'swounds" means.
In Canada (or maybe just in Ontario's english schools...I don't know how universal our curriculum is in this country) we have to study one Shakespeare play a year.
Luckily for me, the first encounter I had with Shakespeare was in a theatre group, and I really enjoyed the experience, so I already came into high school with an appreciation for him...many of my friends though only had the high school Shakespeare experience. Reading Shakespeare in english class is as dry as melba toast. It's far better if you put some emotion in it, and act it out. After all, they are plays.
Nightwolf04
03-31-2005, 10:19 AM
You have a good point Damm and we do actually act it out. I guess it's jsut that msot fo the time I don't take the acting out seriously because either I'm nervous of doing it infront of a class or because other people are afraid as well which doesn't do us any good for acting out...
I jsut generally dont like shakespeare...but I guess that's only my opinion.
You are allowed to not like Shakespeare. I don't like George Bernard Shaw...which is ironic, because I think I'm related to him :confused:
Nightwolf04
03-31-2005, 10:32 AM
Lol thats kinda messed up and I know im allowed to not like him :0 i wish i could go back in time and shoot him but wateva....
Firefly557
03-31-2005, 10:33 AM
Lol damm. just out of interest nightwolf WHAT dont you like about shakespeare?
Nightwolf04
03-31-2005, 10:34 AM
the way he speaks generally ok I shouldn't hate him because the way he writes. Because that's what it was like at the time. But still why do I have to learn it *shakes head* I'm making no sense
Firefly557
03-31-2005, 10:37 AM
you still have to learn it because his works are still held high in peoples' esteem and he is inspiration to many people whole write and because he made up funky words like assasination
If you go back in time and shoot him, then he won't be around for those of us who enjoy him :(
I can't explain why I don't like Shaw either...I just don't.
Firefly557
03-31-2005, 10:44 AM
and blackadder wouldm't win his bet....but he didn't anyway cos he kicked him but whatever
Nightwolf04
03-31-2005, 10:52 AM
I WAS JOKING *sigh*
some people...
Firefly557
03-31-2005, 10:53 AM
oh yes i believed that you were going to go back in time and shoot William Shakespeare...........
Nightwolf04
03-31-2005, 11:02 AM
sounded like it but then again you never know with you
hahaha...I was of course joking as well, of course. Though, if you do develop a time machine, let me know, so I can brace myself for random unleashed paradoxes.
Firefly557
03-31-2005, 11:07 AM
would you know about the paradox's though.... or would they just change everything so that to you it was just as it always was....
Nightwolf04
03-31-2005, 11:09 AM
LoL will do :)
Sicander
04-04-2005, 02:31 PM
I saw the TV version of the Chronicles of Narnia. I MUCH preferred the books, actually.
You might know this might not but christmas 2005 we see The Lion the witch and the wardrobe brought to the big screen by alot of the same people that brought you Lord of the Rings. Im as giddy as a school girl.
Sicander
04-04-2005, 07:09 PM
There are some teaser trailers and a small documentary by weta workshops on the website, I think Its just narnia.com, mabey narniamovie.com i dont remember