View Full Version : Who was the greatest President?
greyscale42
03-25-2005, 04:56 PM
Teddy Roosevelt
Before he was elected he was shot in the sholder during an assassination attempt. What did he do? He pinned the guy down until police got there and then got up and gave a 30 min. speech.
Also while in a bar in the west he ordered coffee. Which of course told evrybody in the room he was a whimp. So the local blowhard came up and challenged him to a fight. He then proceeded to lay the smackdown on the guy. The bully didnt count on him being a boxer.
THATS A REAL MAN!!!!
Klashbash
03-26-2005, 10:19 PM
Ronald Reagan, he used the virtues of freedom, liberty and Capitalism to defeat the Soviet Union which in turn has basically ended Communism throughout the world.
Maybe Ronald Reagan is great for other reasons... but communism, or more precisely Stalinism, fell apart completely on its own and would have done so no matter who it was that happened to be president of the United States at the time.
Actually, of Reagan, Thatcher and Gorbachev, the only one I actually have respect for is Gorbachev...it was Gorbachev who finally saw that the communist system in Russia was fatally flawed and it was Gorbachev that ended communism. He may have ended it by mistake, but it was HIS economic policies of perestoika and glasnost that caused the fall of communism, Reagan had little to nothing to do with it.
Capitalism is not a virtue. It's an economic system.
My vote is for Woodrow Wilson, because he actually attempted to develop a system that would ensure continued peace in the western world. It didn't work, but at least he tried.
Klashbash
03-30-2005, 03:19 PM
Responding to Damm...
Maybe Ronald Reagan is great for other reasons... but communism, or more precisely Stalinism, fell apart completely on its own and would have done so no matter who it was that happened to be president of the United States at the time.
Not exactly, while it's inevitable that Communism will fall on its own anywhere its tried, Ronald Reagan sped up the process considerably faster by challenging the Soviet Union in every conceivable way except for direct military conflict. Communism doesn't have the means of motivating its workers, constant new ideas flowing in or an economy where people rise and fall to their own accord.
Actually, of Reagan, Thatcher and Gorbachev, the only one I actually have respect for is Gorbachev...it was Gorbachev who finally saw that the communist system in Russia was fatally flawed and it was Gorbachev that ended communism. He may have ended it by mistake, but it was HIS economic policies of perestoika and glasnost that caused the fall of communism, Reagan had little to nothing to do with it.
Gorbachev certainly helped speed up the process but it was the competition between the Soviet Union and the USA that was the road runner to its end.
Capitalism is not a virtue. It's an economic system.
Any other system is a violation of human rights and freedom. It's an economic system that lets people rise and fall to their own accord.
Ok, I'll grant you the fact that the arms race certainly didn't help manners. My point was though, that any president would have done the same. It had been US doctrine for a long time.
In theory, not all other economic systems do not violate human rights. In practice, well, that's when things get messy. Human rights have the same chances of being violated in a capitalist country as a communist country.
Sicander
03-30-2005, 04:01 PM
I chose Regan because reganomics worked baby!
doh ok scratch that I forgot Teddy. That get shot and keep pm talking thing was AWSOME. I belive the quote goes somthing like "It'll take more than that to kill a bull moose." Seriously who can compete with that. That man had BALLS!@ :laughing3
Klashbash
03-30-2005, 04:03 PM
Responding to Damm...
Ok, I'll grant you the fact that the arms race certainly didn't help manners. My point was though, that any president would have done the same. It had been US doctrine for a long time.
Any president would've taken some form of action against the Soviet Union but it's a matter of how strong of a policy they place themselves into. JFK for example never had to embargo Cuba, which was an action that almost led us into a nuclear war but it got the missiles out of there and made us a hell of a lot safer.
In theory, not all other economic systems do not violate human rights. In practice, well, that's when things get messy. Human rights have the same chances of being violated in a capitalist country as a communist country.
I can't think of an economic system besides Capitalism that doesn't violate human rights right from the start. Capitalism guarantees a free market, individual ownership of businesses, private property rights, competition, pursuit of happiness, rise and fall to one's own accord, production is guided and income distributed largely through the operation of the markets. If any single one of those factors are not in the economy, then it is not an economy on Capitalism.
Communism right at the start guarantees that there is no human rights. The people are a collective and in no way individuals. People in the collective can be used or taken out by any means without there being a violation of the system. No one can own property, no one can own businesses, no one can rise in society and no one can use their talents and abilities to become higher in society.
Pursuit of happiness is luckily in your constitution, it's not exactly a capitalist thing, it's more of a post European-Enlightment thing.
It seems you are defining human rights solely based on capitalism. The way I read your last post, it seem that for you "basic human rights" IS "the right to capitalism." I believe there is another interpretation. Both economic systems were implemented in the belief that they would improve the living standard of people. Both economic systems claim to be the system that will provide people with a healthy life, in which they are free to pursue happiness.
In the end though, I reinterate that both economic systems can exist in countries that violate human rights. It has little to do with the economic system. National Socialism opporated under a capitalist system. In the early industrail era, human rights were far from perfect while people were working 12 hour days and 6 year-olds were working in mines.
My main point is that "economic systems don't kill people, people kill people".
Communism in Russia was horrible, because it was implemented by a brutal, repressive regime. It is the part of state/government-intervention that determines whether human rights are protected or violated.
Sicander
03-30-2005, 07:02 PM
My main point is that "economic systems don't kill people, people kill people".
Remember though people use economic systems to kill people. And Socialism is one of the easiest ones to do it under. So the more Socialist the state the easier it is for the worst to happen. Capitolism doesn't allow for many of the bad things to happen that happen under socialism. But thats not to say capitalism never hurt anyone. Every economic program has its failings, capitolism just has the least.
Right! That's basically what I've been trying to say! Capitalism is not a virtue, but a society with virtue CAN prosper within it. I still think it's more of an even split for what human rights can be violated under any economic system...but hey, that's just me.
In anycase, I certainly enjoy living in a capitalist society. It will be interesting to see if it completely collapses in the next 50 years, like a friend of mine keeps predicting....I have a lot of strange friends - he and his friends even have a pool going (no money of course, just canned food :p). I do, however, argue that he is wrong with this prediction. ;)
Sicander
03-30-2005, 07:18 PM
In my book Im giving it 75 years. But its fictional so thats just a what if.
M@Broz
03-30-2005, 10:48 PM
Clinton. He improved our international relations and economy to better then it had ever been, as well as being the 2nd president to have ever been impeached.
:smiley_aa :Nudge:
I dont know if he was the greatest, but hes the one i liked the most. He seems most down to earth. Smoked drugs, Fooled around with Adultery, among other things. Not really the best president... wasn't too much of a role-model... but I took a liking to him. He definitely felt more diverse then the other presidents i've seen in my days.
He definitely isn't white bread, narrow minded and stubborn like other presidents i know. (heh heh)
In the words of Chris Rock in Head of state:
"How can you be a real american if you were never really american? How can you control drugs if you've never smoked crack. How can you help the homeless if you've never been poor?"
heh, not that i agree with it. Just found it funny.
just rambling. Dont listen to me :)
GoingNova
03-30-2005, 10:59 PM
Smoked drugs, Fooled around with Adultery, among other things.
Ahh, all things we look for in a Great President! :laughing1 M, you know I love ya... so, well, I am just not gonna say anything else. :D
M@Broz
03-31-2005, 12:17 AM
Ahh, all things we look for in a Great President! :laughing1 M, you know I love ya... so, well, I am just not gonna say anything else. :D
Haha i know. Just playing around with the politicians. Not one myself. I know that for sure. :eek: :smiley_aa
Clinton was an embarrassment to the people and nation he "served". The guy is a joke, and should be looked at that way.
radcliffe_fan723
04-13-2005, 07:34 AM
I guess George Washington...dunno really...i dont any of em...especially clinton....bleck!
Why did you pick George Washington, Radcliffe? Great choice - just wondering...
icpfreaker05
06-15-2005, 01:40 AM
I voted Bill Clinton: He tried to legalize weed. HELLZ YEAH!!! LOL!
ANGLOIRISH
06-15-2005, 07:11 AM
I believe Jimmy Carter was the best President. He was a clean living, morale man who was never surrounded by scandal. He is a man of integrity. I also believe it was ironic that Bush told him there was no room on the plane for him when the Presidents attended the Pope's funereal. Representing the United States of America was a a war monger and an adulterer. Perhaps they felt intimidated by Carter's wholesome image!