Drug Law Reform?

[Ancient_Hawk]

Ok, While I dont think that every single drug on earth should be legal IE: Cocaine, Heroin (They are evil)

Let us take into consideration.. Marijuana.

I for one say Legalize it. Here is my reasoning.

1) Millions of americans partake in it every day.
2) The notion that it is a gateway drug is a myth invented by the partnership for a drug free america. No substance can make a person want to try other drugs.. You have to make that choice yourself.
3) More people die from alcohol related incidents, how many people have you heard of getting into a major automobile accident because they smoked a few hits off a joint? I havent. I hear of posession arrests but little other than that.
4) The Major Street Gangs: Bloodz and Cryptz basically center their business on Marijuana. If marijuana is legalized, It suddenly becomes cheaply available to everyone. Why goto a dealer when you can get some over the counter at the nearest pharmacy, or coffee shop =)
5) Drug Related Crime would drop exponentially. Prison Populations would diminish from Marijuana Related Arrests, moreover if you were a heroin user for instance, and all of a sudden marijuana was legalized, wouldnt you consider kicking heroin and going for whats legal and can still get you high?

[Angry White Man]

I just think making drugs legal is a bad idea. If they were made legal, many more people would do them, or at the very least, try them. That being said, let me respectfully attempt to respond to Hawks points:

1) Millions of americans partake in it every day.?Millions of Americans speed every day, should we abolish speed limits? Simply because people ignore a law is not reason enough to repeal it. Millions MORE would do drugs every day if they were legal.

2) The notion that it is a gateway drug is a myth invented by the partnership for a drug free america. No substance can make a person want to try other drugs.. You have to make that choice yourself.Not entirely true. While FACTUALLY you are correct: using marijuana does not make you PHSYICALLY more inclined to use a stronger drug, studies do show that marijuana use often does progress to the use of harder drugs. People experiment with what is often thought of as a "harmless" drug. Then, after using it for a while, a bigger "high" is sought; thus, users then turn to the harder stuff like heroin, LSD, cocaine, etc. This is particularly a problem since most people will not directly start abusing the harder drugs that are generally understood to be harmful. Marijuana use may simply embolden them to experiment. So, while it does not make you want to do heroin, like nictotine makes you smoke, it does make it more likely to. More heroin addicts have used majrijuana then have not, therefore it is reasonable to come to the the conclusion that you are more likely to try heroin if you smoke majrijuana then if you never have.

3) More people die from alcohol related incidents, how many people have you heard of getting into a major automobile accident because they smoked a few hits off a joint? I havent. I hear of posession arrests but little other than that.Got you on this one! The effects of marijuana are just as bad as the effects of alholcol. The reason you don't hear about people driving while high is because, unlike alcohol which is obvious, when a person is in a drug related accident, you have to wait for a blood test to find out exactly which drug. Unless a person was getting high while driving, and there is the distinct odor of majrijuana, it is not immediately evident. Sometimes it takes weeks before the lab results come back. So, you usually never hear someone was in an accident because they were high simply because by the time the evidence comes back, it is old news.

4) The Major Street Gangs: Bloodz and Cryptz basically center their business on Marijuana. If marijuana is legalized, It suddenly becomes cheaply available to everyone. Why goto a dealer when you can get some over the counter at the nearest pharmacy, or coffee shop =)While this is factually true, it is a little unrealistic. I mean, what do you expect the drug dealers to do, retire? :D Today it is marijuna, if you legalize drugs, they will find something else. They are not going to just close shop and go away. ;)

5) Drug Related Crime would drop exponentially. Prison Populations would diminish from Marijuana Related Arrests, moreover if you were a heroin user for instance, and all of a sudden marijuana was legalized, wouldnt you consider kicking heroin and going for whats legal and can still get you high?It is just not that simple. If you legalized drugs, more people will take them. You might erase drug offenders from prison, but with more of the population on drugs, there are going to be more people with impaired judgements, and that means more of just about every crime. And, while the government may in fact be able to tax drugs and earn money there, it will have to spend more money treating addicts. There will be an increase in people using the drug and therefore a need to increase rehabilitation programs which will come at the cost of taxpayers and the government.

When we weigh in all the factors, I just think that leaving drugs illegal is the better of all evils. As far as people in jail for "non violent" drug related crimes, I have no pity for them at all. The fact is this: as an adult, you know the consequences. If you want to do drugs, go right ahead. But if you get caught, don't cry foul. You knew it was illegal, and did it anyway. You have no one to blame but yourself.

Nice debate though. Good going Hawk! :)

[jaws]

To play devil's advocate on this post:

1) If the gov't were to leagalize certain drugs, that would give them the power to tax and regulate it--creating who knows how many headaches.

2) Look at all the problems we have with Alcohol and Tobacco right now...what if Marijuana presents similar problems?

3) And for old time's sake, the slippery slope argument, if we legalize Marijuana, what's next?

[MrsD]

My opinion is to leave well enough alone. There are too many viable arguments in both directions as evidenced in this thread. Society has enough troubles that it hasn't come up with an answer to! Sorry if I sound as if I'm "wimping out" on a debate, but this is one I'm really on the fence about.

[GoingNova]

My opinion is to leave well enough alone. There are too many viable arguments in both directions as evidenced in this thread. Society has enough troubles that it hasn't come up with an answer to! Sorry if I sound as if I'm "wimping out" on a debate, but this is one I'm really on the fence about.
:applaus:

[jaws]

agreed...that position makes a lot of sense.

[dont argue with this guy]

in my opinion, i think that if marijuana was legalized, it would take a lot of the "shine" off of it because a lot of the thrill of doing drugs is to see if you can sell and do drugs without being caught. If it was legalized, you could do it without having to do anything to hide it. Then its just like buying cigarettes at your local 7-11

[GoingNova]

in my opinion, i think that if marijuana was legalized, it would take a lot of the "shine" off of it because a lot of the thrill of doing drugs is to see if you can sell and do drugs without being caught. If it was legalized, you could do it without having to do anything to hide it. Then its just like buying cigarettes at your local 7-11

However, it would also make more people do it because it was legal, increasing the likelyhood of addictions, and all the negatives that go along with it.

I never did drugs for one main reason: I did not want to go to jail! If they were legal, I most certainly would have.

[dont argue with this guy]

However, it would also make more people do it because it was legal, increasing the likelyhood of addictions, and all the negatives that go along with it.

I never did drugs for one main reason: I did not want to go to jail! If they were legal, I most certainly would have.

well the point i was trying to get at is that it would eventually die out and it wouldn't be exciting to do anymore...and another thing is that the more people smoke marijuana, the more it takes to get the original high, and sooner or later it wont produce a significant effect on the person using it.

[MrsD]

Unfortunately, I think legalized marijuana will have BOTH effects. You'll see more widespread use with new people using every day, and o course there will be the thrill seekers who find the thrill gone and will seek out other illegal items. If marijuana were legalized, I'd imagine it would be very heavily taxed and you'd still find people selling it illegally. :rolleyes:

[Nightwolf04]

I'm not going to get too invovled with this arguemtn either basically because I've heard about it too many times and it's starting to get a little tedious really.

But yes if we legalise it aren't some going to ask what they can legalise next and therefore all drugs be legalised?

[GoingNova]

Continue Debate here

[Nightwolf04]

I don't really think any drug should be legalised...I hate all drugs and smoking...because let's face it none of it's good for you...

just my opinion.

[jatkins]

Millions of Americans speed every day, should we abolish speed limits? Simply because people ignore a law is not reason enough to repeal it. Millions MORE would do drugs every day if they were legal.
This is a false analogy. Speeding increases the likelihood of car crashes, so it is not a victimless crime. It is debatable whether or not marijuana use is a victimless crime, but until you demonstrate that it isn't, you can't really expect this argument to buy you anything.

Not entirely true. While FACTUALLY you are correct: using marijuana does not make you PHSYICALLY more inclined to use a stronger drug, studies do show that marijuana use often does progress to the use of harder drugs.
1) Non-unique. This is true of cigarettes and alcohol as well. It is logically inconsistent to forbid marijuana use becuase of its role as a gateway drug without also forbidding smoking and drinking, both of which have many worse side effects besides.

2) Plan solves. Legalization of "safe" drugs may decrease the difficulty of convincing kids that illegal drugs are unsafe. Kids who smoke marijuana and realize that it's not that dangerous realize that the law doesn't exist to protect them from dangerous drugs, reducing the threshold of peer pressure required for them to believe that other harder drugs are safe. "Hey, the government was wrong about marijuana, maybe it's wrong about heroin too!" If marijuana is legal, however, that line is clearer: all of the "safer" drugs are legal, so anything that's over that line is more likely to be dangerous.

Got you on this one! The effects of marijuana are just as bad as the effects of alholcol. The reason you don't hear about people driving while high is because, unlike alcohol which is obvious, when a person is in a drug related accident, you have to wait for a blood test to find out exactly which drug.
Depending on how high one is, marijuana use does indeed impair any activity that requires reflexes (like driving). The extent of this impairment is generally not as great as it is with illegal blood alcohol levels, however. One could conceivably get high enough to impair them as much as a .010 BAC, but it would require a great deal of effort. Still, it is no longer true that there have been no cases of high-behind the wheel fatalities: there was one last year, which I recall because the example made its way into a lot of debate rounds on the NPDA circuit.

Unless a person was getting high while driving, and there is the distinct odor of majrijuana, it is not immediately evident.
Speaking as a person who, while not himself a stoner, has hung out with quite a few, the odor of marijuana is pretty heavy, thick, and hard to get rid of.

Sometimes it takes weeks before the lab results come back. So, you usually never hear someone was in an accident because they were high simply because by the time the evidence comes back, it is old news.
I think you're taking a stab in the dark at this explanation. It's considerably more likely that the level of impairment simply isn't as great, so accidents are not as frequently fatal.

While this is factually true, it is a little unrealistic.
It is not possible for something to be both factually true and also unrealistic.

I mean, what do you expect the drug dealers to do, retire? :D Today it is marijuna, if you legalize drugs, they will find something else. They are not going to just close shop and go away. ;)
Some of them will have to: there are barriers to entry into any market, especially illegal ones. Others will have less business because of the loss of a "gateway drug" to the other side of the law. Still others will be kept in jail longer because they won't be pushed back out by the press of non-violent marijuana users filling up cells unnecessarily.

It is just not that simple. If you legalized drugs, more people will take them. You might erase drug offenders from prison, but with more of the population on drugs, there are going to be more people with impaired judgements, and that means more of just about every crime.
Non-unique: alcohol. Furthermore, we don't know that millions more people would use it. Many would probably view it with the same distaste they do tobacco, while others would stay away from it because of the values that kept them away from it before. Probably more people would use marijuana, but that doesn't necessarily lead to more crime, especially when marijuana doesn't cause paranoia, anger, irritability, or any of the other things that cause alcoholics to be such frequent offenders. The only crimes I can see going up are shoplifting of cheez-its and indecent exposure.

And, while the government may in fact be able to tax drugs and earn money there, it will have to spend more money treating addicts. There will be an increase in people using the drug and therefore a need to increase rehabilitation programs which will come at the cost of taxpayers and the government.
The government doesn't have rehab centers for tobacco addicts, why would they have them for marijuana addicts (especially when marijuana isn't physically addictive)? We've gotten monstrous revenue from tobacco taxes.

When we weigh in all the factors, I just think that leaving drugs illegal is the better of all evils. As far as people in jail for "non violent" drug related crimes, I have no pity for them at all. The fact is this: as an adult, you know the consequences. If you want to do drugs, go right ahead. But if you get caught, don't cry foul. You knew it was illegal, and did it anyway. You have no one to blame but yourself.
Social contract theory says, if I'm not hurting someone else, the state doesn't have a right to stop me from doing anything. As much as I do not like marijuana, I think it should be legal so long as tobacco and alcohol are.

[Dublhelix]

As a NON-smoking citizen, with a friend whos in grve trouble for possesin a drug that has NO fatalities recorded, that DOESNT make you voilent (ie alcohol), Doesnt hurt other people (cigarettes), isnt that addictive (studies show that its less addictive than alcohol) i say marijuana should be legalised! marijuna laws suck ass.

if amsterdam can do it and still maintain an rdinary economy, why not us? If you legalised it and made an age restriction, it would be a **** load easier to restrict access to minors AND we'd get money off the revenue too.....

gateway drug? n my opinion the reason it acts as a MINOR gatewy drug is that its demonised so much by the presspublic/people in general tht wen people actuall DO it theyre like "hey this isnt so bad" and therefore dont beleive the uthorites about the more dangerous drugs. If it wws legalised, a sense of fear bout the bad drugs would be maintained.