PC Upgrade recommendations

[JHowse]

Probably mostly to hear from DD on this one but others, too.

Here is my computer situation.

I am wondering if I should upgrade or build a new PC.

I have as my main PC, the Shopss.com P3 500 on the Luckystar BX board. It has 192 MB of RAM in 3 64 MB PC100 DIMMs. Components include the WD 13 GB HDD as my secondary and a maxtor 2.4 GB as the primary. I also have a DVD-ROM and an internal Zip. The video card is a Voodoo3 3000. I am also running an OEM SB Live, a US Robotics Performance Pro PCI 56K modem, and a DLink NIC.

I also have an AMD 400 with 64 MB of RAM running with a 2 GB and 6 GB HDD's. I also have 2 CD-ROMs in there. It has a Rage 128 and a Voodoo2. Sound is a POS ESS Solo PCI card, and I have a winmodem and 3Com ISA NIC. I also have a 486/66 with an AWE 32, a NIC, a couple of 1 giggers and a couple of CD ROMs. Nothin great about him as he is my printer server, TV host machine, and a place to dump files.

I want to know. Should I upgrade my shopss PC or just keep as is and sell off the other 2 to build a new one? Should I expect too much from the other machines?
Either way, I am looking to spend as little as possible to get as much as possible! http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/supergrin.gif I'd say $700 is my MAX budget to play with, here.

I definitely welcome any thoughts, here.

Thanks! http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

<font color="#000000">[Edited by JHowse on August 23, 2000 (edited 1 time)]</font>

[Diesel]

I'm not really sure what you're asking. Do you need a new PC? Are you looking to upgrade an existing machine or are you looking to add another machine to the group? Are you lacking performance in a specific area?

I think you may be kinda limited with that Shopss machine, just because the motherboard is of "questionable" quality. However, it's modern enough that it's still more than functional.

I don't think upgrading any of the older machines is worth it. You might want to sell those off and use the funds to put together a decent Duron machine.
Your budget isn't outrageous, and you can put together a pretty nice machine for that much. I wouldn't expect to get a GeForce2 or anything, but you might be able to throw some extra RAM in there with the money you make off of those older systems.

If the 486 is functional in the capacity you're using it in, I would hold onto it and continue to use it as such. You're not likely to get much money for it, so it's probably more valuable to you in it's current capacity that what it would cost you to replace it.


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On an long enough timeline, everyone's survival rate drops to zero.

[JHowse]

I was looking to see what I could do to make something of decent gaming quality. The V3 3K is ok, but I really start to see it's limits beyond 800x600. I could just upgrade to a GeForce2 and keep everything else, but I do like the Durons. What about a Duron machine running a GeForce2 MX? Keep in mind that I don't really need monitors or anything like that as I have these. I also can make do with the CD-ROMs I have and the floppy from my old PC. If money is really and issue, then I can even use an old HDD. So we are down to case, mobo, processor, vid card, and RAM. I also could add a smaller HDD. I am just wondering if the shopss pc can take a CuMine or CelerMine processor.

[Diesel]

Here's the problem with upgrading the parts you're mentioning: you're already disappointed with how slow the system is. Now you want to move all of the parts that are making it slow, and put them in a machine with a faster processor.
The processor is only one piece of what makes a system perform fast. Put a lot of memory and a fast, 7200RPM hard drive into a K6-2 system, and all of a sudden, you have a good performing system that's more than competent for most modern games.

"I am just wondering if the shopss pc can take a CuMine or CelerMine processor."

That will likely depend on the motherboard that they used, but with a slotket, you probably could get it to work. However, for the same reasons stated above, it might not make a significant enough difference to warrant the effort and expense.

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On an long enough timeline, everyone's survival rate drops to zero.

[JHowse]

Hmmmmm, so based on what you are saying, I am choked by HDD performance. That's pretty much true. Interesting. Well, this leads me to a possibility. Since I am already running with 192 MB of RAM. So a 72K RPM drive would fix the situation with perhaps some more RAM and definitely a faster video card. The Mobo is a 6P2BX2 made by Luckystar. It's your standard slot 1 BX board with 5 PCI, 2 ISA, 1 AGP, and 3 DIMMS. So if I understand this right, I could get nice performance boost for a perhaps a couple of hundred. Interesting. Thanks for your help.

[nootch]

I just put this together not too long ago:


Asus CUBX mobo - $130
P3 650 FC-PGA (100MHz FSB) - $190 (got it at onvia.com with $25 off coupon a while back)
128MB Crucial PC133 CL2 RAM - $161 (shipping and tax included)
Golden Orb fan (cause I'm overclocking) - $15
Enlight 7237 case - $65
Hercules 3D Prophet II MX (GeForce2 MX) - $150
Sound Blaster Live! Value - $45
Teac 1.44MB Floppy - $11

Total: $767 (I already had a Maxtor 30GB 7200RPM)

I could've done better on the video card (onvia.com has it for $132 but it's out of stock, should be coming in soon though) and probably other components too, but I was in a hurry and it was still under budget. The cool thing is that I'm running this at 910MHz with no problems and at 35-50 degrees celsius depending on the load (and yes this is on a BX mobo).


p.s. - woohoo! this is my 100th post! http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/supergrin.gif

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"Should I call you Logan, WeaponX?"

[JHowse]

Nice system, Nootch. I wonder if I could build something similar, and thus cheaper using the Duron/KT133 chipset? I've read about some issues regarding the GeForce and these boards. Could somebody elaborate?

Nootch, what's the best place that you'd recommend to get these parts from?

Pretty much, I'll be looking for the same kinds of things except I'm going in the AMD direction and will not need an SB-Live or a floppy (already have it). I will need a 72K RPM drive. I hear the Maxtor 30 GB one is pretty cheap, these days.

[Diesel]

Wow! A 72000 RPM hard drive?!? Sucker must be fast... http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/wink.gif

I would venture to say that you'd be looking at about the same price when you're done, since a KT133 mobo will be more expensive than the CUBX, but the Duron will cost less than the P3 in nootch's setup.


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On an long enough timeline, everyone's survival rate drops to zero.

[JHowse]

Heh. http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/lol.gif I think I need another cup of coffee, DD. Forgot that decimal on that 7.2K http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/tongue.gif If I knew of a drive that would spin up that fast, I think I'd see a renegade platter fly out of the case and do some devistation of the likes seen in a game of Worms! http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/tongue.gif

[nootch]

JH: I got most of the parts at local stores and computer shows (Mobo, Case, Golden Orb, Sound Blaster etc)... but I got the memory from Crucial (see http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001620.html for 15% discount), and I'd recommend Onvia for the video card (actually for most parts since there's no shipping and no tax).

Sorry I can't be of more help...

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"Should I call you Logan, WeaponX?"

[runequest2]

i will throw my 2 cents in. i would get rid of the amd 400 and use the money to get a maxtor 7200 rpm drive and possibly a geforce card. sell off the voodoo 3 and the 2 GB drive also. this will give you a decent base computer with a faster HD and overall better gaming and all around performance for close to no money expended or even a net gain in money if the parts fetch enough. then wait for a deal on a barebones computer and pull the new parts out of this computer into the newer machine and sell the rest. the cheapest way to upgrade. i agree with keeping the other computer since the 486 will not get you too much.

[JHowse]

Picked up that 30 GB Diamond Max 7200 drive and re-installed everything. WOW! What a difference! I also was able to successfully overclock to a 112MHz FSB and thus push my 500 to 560.

Just need a faster vid card, and I will be happy in gaming. Which will be a better buy for my money? The Geforce 2 MX or Geforce 2 GTS?

[Diesel]

The Geforce MX will cost less, but the Geforce 2 GTS will yield faster performance.


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On an long enough timeline, everyone's survival rate drops to zero.

[JHowse]

Sorry, I misphrased my question. I meant to ask which card will yield a better price/performance ratio? From what I have read, the MX's SDR memory is rather OC'able to yield performance close to that of the old DDR card.

[Diesel]

Only you can decide that, because you are the one who determines what performance level is satisfactory.
It's pointless for me to tell you that, say, a TNT2 is the best "bang-for-the-buck" if you find the performance of a TNT2 is too slow.
Likewise, it's pointless for me to tell you that a Geforce MX is the best "bang-for-the-buck" if a Geforce MX is out of your price range.


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On an long enough timeline, everyone's survival rate drops to zero.

[JHowse]

Yup, you know what they say. If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP!! http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/lol.gif Yeah. I pretty much agree with what you said about the GeForce card stuff.

[WaterB]

a MX is kinda ranged in between a SDR Geforce and a DDR Geforce.. it's up to you if you wanna spend the extra $50...

I was able to push my herc DDR pretty far.. but from what i've been hearing.. you are able to push the MX as well.


Edit:
Either way go w/ a Herc card.. GeforceDDR or MX.. Herc has the best ones..

[JHowse]

Well, I don't need top notch performance, really. Just something better than my Voodoo3 3K. It's decent, but I want better. From what I read, the MX is good for the money and rather OC'able. I don't have to play at 1280x1024 or even 1600x1200, either. The HDD and reinstall were the biggest helps, though. I'm not so displeased with my computer, now. Thanks for your help! http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[Diesel]

A regular Geforce DDR would probably suit your needs just fine, but I have a feeling that the Geforce MX might even be cheaper and a little faster.
The V3 3k was crap when it came out. It was a good BUDGET card, even though many 3dfx supporters wanted to make it seem more powerful than it really was.



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On an long enough timeline, everyone's survival rate drops to zero.

[JHowse]

Well, I got myself a Geforce 2 MX card, so I can't wait for it to arrive. I'll go ahead and keep my AMD box as it will make a good scanner/burning machine. http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/supergrin.gif

[JHowse]

Well, that Geforce card is in there and running. I have my nice, new 30 GB 72000 RPM drive. I even was able to OC my processor to 560 MHz, and I am still running without ISA cards and also with 192 MB o' RAM. My PC is actually pretty zippy, now, thanks to y'all's advice! Thanks! http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/supergrin.gif I guess any future upgrade will involve getting up to 256 MB o' RAM.

[Diesel]

You probably won't notice much of a difference between 192MB and 256MB. The difference between 128 and 192 is much more pronounced.
Put the money into something besides RAM. You should be more than fine with 192MB.


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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"

[JHowse]

Well, with my AMD box starting to die, the money may go for an el cheapo computer or a bare bones system to get myself back with a reliable scanning/burning PC.

[Diesel]

Now why are you gonna go and do something like that?
You just went and spent all of this money to buy quality parts for this machine, and you're gonna turn around and skimp and put together a machine out of crappy parts.
It is possible to build a computer out of quality parts for not a lot of money. Even spending a little more on decent quality components will save you a ton of headaches down the road.

Have we taught you nothing?!? http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/smile.gif


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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"

[JHowse]

Dan, If money wasn't an issue, I'd have a P3-1GHz with 512 MB o' RAM, a 40 GB Ultra Wide SCSI drive, SCSI DVD-ROM and CD-RW, a GeForce 2 Ultra, a 21 inch Sony monitor, Sound Blaster Live - Platinum, tower case, USB mouse and keyboard, and a partridge in a pear tree! http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/supergrin.gif But, we can only dream.

There is a way I can troubleshoot this old PC. I think the 3 year old WD HDD is going kapoot on me. If so, I can slap a newer HDD in its place and let it go to work....no money involved since I have one ready to go. But if not....yeah...new PC. But something more low end. It doesn't have to play the latest 3D games. Just burn CD's and scan pics. http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/supergrin.gif

[JHowse]

Easy problem to fix. It was a bad mouse. Mouse was showing up half of the time and not the other. Then within a few minutes, the clicking noises began. So it was bye bye for mousie! http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/lol.gif

[Diesel]

Thanks for giving me the perfect opportunity to demonstrate why you should always go with name-brand quality parts when you have the opportunity.

Say you try to put a brand new hard drive into that 3 year old machine. You probably have to deal with the fact that a BIOS that old has a limitation of 8.4GB, and the full capacity of that new drive won't be recognized, and therefore won't be accessible.
Now, this is an easily fixable situation. You could just go to the motherboard manufacturer's web site and download the latest flash BIOS, flash the BIOS to the newest version, complete with large drive support, and you're off an running.
It's easy if you know who the manufacturer of your motherboard is, since most of the big names continue to support and release new BIOS updates for even their outdated boards.
Good luck finding a barebones system with a motherboard from a name that's known enough that they can afford to continue to support a 3 year old board, much less develop new BIOS updates for it.

Now, if you have, say, an Asus or Abit or Tyan Socket 7 board (probably about what was new 3 years ago), I'd bet dollars to donuts that you'd be able to find BIOS updates for their Socket 7 boards on their web site. They may not be a month old, but I'd be sure they'd at least be new enough to support large drives.
Now, say you bought a barebones system from, say, TigerDirect, where you'd save a lot of money while they packed that generic POS case with generic POS components. Doubtful you'd get much in the way of BIOS updates from TigerDirect. You might get lucky enough to find out who manufactured the motherboard in it, but I'd be it'd be from some small Tiawanese company that doesn't even have a website in English.

It may seem like you're saving money, but in the long run, you're really not.


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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"

[JHowse]

Actually, the board I bought for that 3 year old machine, back in the day, was a Matsonic 6260s, and it was to replace a dead mobo on a P200MMX machine. I was rather impressed with it. That P200 gave me a nice overclock to 225 without any sweat. It wouldn't dance at 250, so I just lived with it. It was kind of funny that the K6-2 400 wasn't that much better than the oc'd 200...it was only a little better. The mmx line of processors were actually top notch. Now, the Matsonic was not the best board, but when you're in college and don't have a lot of money, if was perfect. They actually do have a site to get the BIOS updates for that board, but since I just want to keep that old machine as a burner/scanner machine, it doesn't even need upgrading. It just has to hum along at it's 400 MHz. As long as it works, I'm happy. I suppose when it dies, it will be time to build a brand spanking new PC with nice parts. Something that will give a good 2 years of performance for me.