Russian Sub

[Boone]

From the news reports I've been reading it seems that it's too late to rescue any of the sailors from the sub. They've been given up for dead. What a tragedy.

To all the men and women who serve or haved served in our armed forces I salute you. You have bled and died for your countries and for the sacrifices you have made you will always be remembered with honor. You will never be forgotten.

(Russian)
Всем мужчинам и женщинам, кто служат или хавед, служил в наших вооруженных силах, я приветствую Вас. Вы кровоточили и умерли для ваших стран и для жертв, которые Вы сделали, Вас будут всегда помнить с честью. Вы никогда не будете забыты.


Boone



<font color="#000000">[Edited by Boone on August 19, 2000 (edited 2 times)]</font>

[spidergoolash]

this story is heartbreaking. the thought of them suffering down there makes me sick.

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"it's easier to stay out than get out"

[JHowse]

If you are reading this, take a moment to think about any loved ones or friends you know serving in the armed forces (of whatever nationality you are from) and take a moment of silence to think about how what they are doing benefits us all.

This is heartbreaking as this not only effects them, but it impacts their friends and family, as well. I have both friends and family who have served or are currently serving in the military. What they do is sometimes a thankless job.

[eminem]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Russia didn't want any help from neighboring contries. Why??

[Boone]

Well in my opinion, it's that pride is a factor or the fact that everybody over there is a f*ckin idiot. Take your pick. A third reason could be there is something about that sub the russian gov. doesn't want other countries to know. There has been too many inconsistencies of the facts throughout the whole reporting of this situation. It almost seems to me that those men died so that some truth can remain hidden. This is just my opinion though.

Boone

[Al]

eminem&gt; I think they were embarassed enough by the loss of another vessel not too long ago and to have a former enemy save them. Plus, their president didn't want to get his big keester out from vacation.

I feel so sorry for those men. My brother was asked to join the US navy to man a nuclear sub but we talked him out of it. He joined the AF a year after I did. My prayers go out for those sailors and their family.

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" I'll take 'the-rapist' for $200, Alex "

[spidergoolash]

yup, i think boone is right here. pride played a big role along w/info. that "went down w/the ship" that will remain undisclosed http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/frown.gif

so damn sad that they would put all this before the lives of these guys.

[Alien]

The story continues...

http://news.excite.com/news/r/000821/01/news-russia-submarine-dc

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Alien - Administrator / Owner
["Everything was true. God was an alien. Oz really is over the
rainbow. ...and Midian is where the monsters live." -Nightbreed]

[Alien]

We get closer...

http://news.excite.com/news/r/000821/03/news-russia-submarine-dc

----------------------------
Alien - Administrator / Owner
["Everything was true. God was an alien. Oz really is over the
rainbow. ...and Midian is where the monsters live." -Nightbreed]

[JHowse]

Here's another perspective. Parts of the hull on that thing got ripped apart in an explosion. Look:
http://www.msnbc.com/msn/445813.asp

[mthrlangl]

I dunno if some of the links said this, but all of the crew is dead. The news this morning said that most of them prolly died when the explosion ocurred (sp?). As to why Russia was too stubborn to ask for help, from what I heard, it was a security issue. They didn't want anyone to know more about their subs, military, etc. than possible.

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You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help. - Calvin

[liltaz]

pride/too much info on there/stupidity...they all played parts if you ask me.



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"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience."

- Woodrow Wilson

[spidergoolash]

twenty-three were still alive after the blast occurred:

http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/10/26/russia.kursk.01/index.html

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"i like crumbs ..."

[meezercat]

Very, very upsetting http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/frown.gif

[jourgenson]

From what I heard it sounded like the sub was doing something it shouldn't have been doing, and the Russians didn't want everyone to know what they were up to.

This reminds me of a story my grandfather told my father. My grandfather worked at Bell Aircraft (the company which built Yeager's plane that first broke the sound barrier). From time to time test pilots would come to Bell's runway in Buffalo and test new equipment. One time there were some Russian pilots on some sort of exchange rogram or something and they were doing crazy stuff like flying upside down about 10 feet above the ground. The American test pilots (who tend to be crazy anyway) and the Bell staff were amazed by this. The Russians later said something to the effect of "That's the problem with you Americans, you are afraid to die." I think this illustrates the differences between our ideolgy and that of Russia. Here we think of it as a horrible tragedy. There, those young men are heroes who died for their country. There probably is no outcry and the people are probably happy they didn't get outside help in order to save secrets. Although I'm sure it isn't like it was before 1990.

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my eyes, the goggles do nothing

[mthrlangl]

Oh, no. There was public outcry. The news showed some clips of *VERY* pissed off Russians. Unfortunately, due to their government, their outcry prolly won't do a darn bit of good.

On the 23 that were still alive, I can't imagine being the salvage guy to find that in the soldier's pocket. Can you imagine how utterly *horrible* that would be? God.

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Alien - "Sh*t. I swallowed Yoda! ...Don't quote me on that."

[meezercat]

I can't imagine being a salvage guy, period. Ick.

[meezercat]

Damn, just reading that makes me feel claustrophobic.

[liltaz]

ain't that the truth!

----------------------------
"No man can be condemed for owning a dog.
As long as he has a dog, he has a friend;
and the poorer he gets, the better friend he has."

- Will Rogers


Loyalty and love are the best things of all, and surely the most lasting. -- My Dog Skip

[JHowse]

Still, I'd rather be one of the other 2/3 than that 23 who had a more awful fate....

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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?

[mthrlangl]

Those poor, poor men. God. I'm with JH, though. I'd rather die fast than suffocate in the dark.

http://www.aliensoup.com/ubb/smilies/bawling.gif

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Alien - "Sh*t. I swallowed Yoda! ...Don't quote me on that."

[liltaz]

Just because those newspapers don't keep this stuff online long, here's the story about that from the New york Daily News:


A doomed Russian sailor trapped on the crippled submarine Kursk scratched out a last letter to his wife revealing that he and 22 comrades survived the blasts that sent them to the bottom of the sea.

As Lt. Dmitry Kolesnikov struggled to put down his final thoughts, freezing water seeped into the compartment and he knew there was little chance of escape.

"None of us can get to the surface," the 27-year-old officer wrote. "Two or three people might try to escape the submarine through the emergency escape hatch located in the ninth compartment."


Doomed sailor Dmitry Kolesnikov
Kolesnikov's letter, found in his pocket after divers recovered his body, provided no clues to the cause of the Aug. 12 catastrophe that killed all 118 aboard, Vice Adm. Mikhail Motsak, chief of staff of the Northern Fleet, said yesterday. But it had a brief description of how they fled to the rear compartment as seawater poured into the vessel.

Kolesnikov's handwriting in the first part of the note was neat. After the sub's emergency lights went out, his script turned into a desperate scrawl. "I am writing blindly," wrote Kolesnikov, the son of a submariner from St. Petersburg.

Mostak said the rest of the note was private. He said the doomed officer wrote it between 1:34 p.m. and 3:15 p.m. The explosions that sank the Kursk in the Barents Sea occurred around 11:30 a.m.

The Russian military and President Vladimir Putin had been criticized for their slow and confused response to the disaster. Kolesnikov's note raised that issue again.

The revelation that 23 sailors were alive for hours after the sub sank dealt a second blow to Kolesnikov's grieving widow. "I feel pain, enormous pain," Olga Kolesnikova said. "I had a premonition my husband didn't die instantly. The pain I felt then has come true."

Kolesnikov may have had a premonition of death — he left behind a mournful poem for his wife before he left for his last mission.


23 sailors survived the blast that sent the Kursk to the bottom of the sea.
Submarine expert William Green of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank, said the Russians probably wouldn't have been able to mount a rescue in time.

"I would have been surprised if the sailors would have lasted a couple hours," Green told the Daily News. "If they survived the hypothermia, a lack of air would have gotten them next."

The horror for the sailors lay in the knowledge that there was no escape, he said. Kolesnikov "had plenty of time to think about it," Green added.

Gerald McLees of Portsmouth, N.H., who survived the sinking of the American submarine Squalus in 1939, said the Kursk crew died a "ghastly death."

"I guess they knew that there was no chance of them escaping," he said. "We had contact with the surface, so we had some hope. But these poor guys didn't know how long the air would last. They didn't know if they would drown."

Divers started cutting into the Kursk on Tuesday to begin removing the bodies. Kolesnikov's was among the first four bodies retrieved Wednesday.

Most of the crew was blown to bits by powerful explosions in the weapons room in the submarine's bow.

While Western experts suspect a missile accident sank the sub, the Russians have proposed various theories that continue to blame it on a collision with a Western submarine, a World War II-era mine or an internal malfunction.

Letter Reveals 23 Survived Death of Sub

"All the crew from the sixth, seventh and eighth compartments Went over to the ninth. There are 23 people here. We made this decision as a result of the accident. None of us can get to the surface."

"I am writing blindly," the message continued later in disorderly handwriting after the lights went off.

From note found in pocket
of Lt. Dmitry Kolesnikov

When the hour to die will come
although I try not to think about it
I would like to have time to say,
‘My darling I love you’

Poem Lt. Dmitry Kolesnikov wrote his wife shortly before
he left for his final, fatal mission aboard the Kursk.


----------------------------
"No man can be condemed for owning a dog.
As long as he has a dog, he has a friend;
and the poorer he gets, the better friend he has."

- Will Rogers


Loyalty and love are the best things of all, and surely the most lasting. -- My Dog Skip